Committee Summary for House Ways and Means (01/14/2025)

Bill/Time	Type	Title	Sponsor
Unclear 00:08:36.760 - 8:07:42 AM	General Working Session	Unclear

Unclear: Jordan Erery, Vice Chair of Ways and Means Information Only00:08:36.760 - 8:07:42 AM; Jordan Erery opened the briefing session, standing in for the absent chair, and introduced the first speaker, Jason Wong from the Federal Home Loan Bank of Boston, to discuss the regional economy.
Unclear: Jason Wong, Senior Vice President of Strategic Planning and Research, Federal Home Loan Bank of Boston Information Only00:09:21.800 - 8:08:27 AM; Jason Wong provided a detailed economic update focusing on both the national and regional economies. He highlighted the significant decrease in inflation from 9% in 2022 to between 2% and 3% currently, discussing the factors behind this decline, including the resolution of supply chain issues in the goods sector. He noted that while the goods sector has seen favorable inflation trends, the services sector, particularly housing, remains a persistent issue. Wong discussed the importance of housing in the inflation indices and the lag in reflecting current market rents. He also touched on other service categories like medical care and transportation, noting high inflation rates in these areas. Additionally, Wong discussed the labor market, pointing out low unemployment rates but a concerning downward trend in job postings, which could indicate potential softening. He concluded with projections of a soft landing for the economy, where inflation could reach the Fed's target without causing a recession, though he acknowledged risks due to trends in the labor market.
Unclear: Unidentified Speaker Information Only01:07:39.640 - 9:06:45 AM; The speaker discussed the potential short-term and medium-term impacts of proposed tariffs on various countries. They mentioned that tariffs, such as a 60% tariff on goods from China, 25% on goods from Canada and Mexico, and 10-15% on goods from other countries, would likely be inflationary. The speaker highlighted that these tariffs would lead to higher consumer prices, with the possibility of some revenue offset, but expected the net effect to be inflationary. They also noted that the Federal Reserve is monitoring these potential impacts on inflation.
Unclear: Representative Rich Neno from Elstead Information Only01:09:23.319 - 9:08:29 AM; Representative Neno expressed concerns about the impact of immigration on economic projections. He questioned how the influx of immigrants, both legal and illegal, affects the economic forecasts, particularly referencing the situation in Massachusetts. The speaker highlighted the need to factor in immigration when considering economic indicators and projections.
Unclear: Unidentified Speaker Information Only01:10:23.520 - 9:09:29 AM; The speaker responded to Representative Neno's inquiry about immigration's economic impact. They explained that immigration primarily affects the number of workers available, potentially impacting inflation through changes in housing prices in areas with significant population growth. The speaker noted that it is challenging to isolate the specific effects of immigration from other factors at a national level.
Unclear: Michael Skelton from the New Hampshire Business and Industry Association Information Only01:12:14.560 - 9:11:20 AM; Michael Skelton, President and CEO of the New Hampshire Business and Industry Association, welcomed the committee and introduced Nate Grace, Vice President of Public Policy. He highlighted the BIA's role as New Hampshire's Statewide Chamber of Commerce and State Manufacturing Association, representing over 400 employer members across the state. Skelton mentioned the upcoming release of a report titled 'Blueprint New Hampshire 2030', which will provide a data-driven view of New Hampshire's economic competitiveness compared to other states.
Unclear: Nate Grace from the New Hampshire Business and Industry Association Information Only01:15:48.520 - 9:14:54 AM; Nate Grace presented data and insights on New Hampshire's economic conditions. He emphasized the state's strong economic performance but highlighted challenges such as workforce availability, housing supply, child care, and the regulatory environment. Grace discussed the BIA's survey of business leaders, noting priorities like housing and child care. He also provided statistics on population growth, business formations, and industry growth, particularly in tech and advanced industries. Grace stressed the importance of addressing housing costs and supply issues, which have significantly increased since 2020, and discussed the impact of electricity prices on businesses. He concluded by urging the state legislature to embrace solutions to increase economic output.
Unclear: Representative ORS Information Only02:13:00.880 - 10:12:06 AM; Representative ORS asked a follow-up question regarding the survival rates of newly formed companies in New Hampshire, seeking data on how many new businesses survive three to five years to understand net company creation. The response indicated that if such data exists, it would be provided to the committee.
Unclear: Representative ORS Information Only02:13:52.679 - 10:12:58 AM; Representative ORS shifted focus to energy costs and the potential for increasing nuclear energy supply in New Hampshire to reduce electricity costs. The response from the New Hampshire Business and Industry Association (NHBIA) indicated that while they have a policy supporting decreased energy costs, they do not specifically address nuclear energy, and further discussion with their board would be necessary to formulate a position.
Unclear: Bob Quinn, CEO of the New Hampshire Association of Realtors Information Only02:17:04.359 - 10:16:10 AM; Bob Quinn introduced himself as the CEO of the New Hampshire Association of Realtors and highlighted the rising median sale price of single-family homes in New Hampshire, which reached $514,000 in 2024, surpassing the $500,000 mark for the first time. He presented data showing a significant increase in median sale prices since 2016, up 105%, while median income rose by 50%.
Unclear: Sarah Holland, Chair of Public Policy for the New Hampshire Association of Realtors Information Only02:17:04.359 - 10:16:10 AM; Sarah Holland, focusing on the residential side of real estate, discussed the impact of housing availability on community stability and economic health. She emphasized the need for diverse housing types to retain community members and support local economies, illustrating how the lack of housing options forces people to move out of the state.
Unclear: Chris Norwood, Vice Chair for the New Hampshire Association of Realtors Public Policy Committee Information Only02:17:04.359 - 10:16:10 AM; Chris Norwood, representing the commercial real estate sector, discussed the contribution of residential and commercial real estate transactions to the state's real estate transfer tax revenue. He noted that residential transactions account for around 80% of the transfer tax, with commercial transactions making up 10-20%. He also addressed trends in commercial real estate, indicating variations by asset class, with industrial properties experiencing tight supply and rising rental rates, while office and retail markets show different dynamics.
Unclear: Representative Run from Merrimack Information Only02:43:09.960 - 10:42:15 AM; Representative Run from Merrimack raised concerns about the impact of increased house values on residential property taxes in his town. He noted that the residential assessment is increasing at a much higher rate than commercial and industrial assessments, causing a shift in tax burden onto residents. He questioned if this dynamic has been considered in the data presented, specifically regarding the strain on residents' budgets due to rent or mortgage costs.
Unclear: Chris Norwood, Vice Chair for the New Hampshire Association of Realtors Public Policy Committee Information Only02:44:10.319 - 10:43:16 AM; Chris Norwood responded to Representative Run's question by explaining that New Hampshire does not have an equalization ratio for commercial versus residential property like Massachusetts does. He stated that he would need to look into the specific impact of valuation increases on property taxes but noted that all valuations, including commercial, have been increasing, though not as dramatically as residential valuations. He also mentioned other factors affecting tax bills, such as current use and conservation efforts, and expressed concern about the potential burden on municipalities and the state if residents cannot pay their taxes, leading to property displacement.
Unclear: Representative Ulery Information Only02:46:36.680 - 10:45:42 AM; Representative Ulery discussed the impact of large commercial and industrial warehousing spaces being built in towns like Londonderry, Salem, and possibly Candia, adding to the tax base. He asked if the increased tax revenue from these facilities has offset the tax rate on properties. Chris Norwood responded that he does not have specific data on this but mentioned the need to consider the previous use of the land, such as current use, and the potential obsolescence of older industrial buildings.
Unclear: Representative Maguire Information Only02:48:27.720 - 10:47:33 AM; Representative Maguire noted a decrease in single-family home sales in 2024 compared to previous years and mentioned that the goal of issuing 8,000 building permits would make a small dent in the current housing shortage of over 20,000 units, projected to reach 990,000 by 2040. He emphasized the need to reduce barriers to increase housing opportunities, including ADUs and infill development, to spread the tax burden among more property owners.
Unclear: Representative Stringham Information Only02:50:14.120 - 10:49:20 AM; Representative Stringham discussed the inclusion of short-term rental stock in the housing shortage numbers, noting that New Hampshire's history as a tourist destination necessitates accounting for these rentals. He mentioned that while some short-term rentals are investment-only, many are used by owners to help pay their tax bills. He also shared his personal experience with short-term rentals and their limited impact on overall housing inventory.
Unclear: Bob (unspecified last name) Information Only02:51:53.960 - 10:50:59 AM; Bob mentioned that studies by the New Hampshire Housing Finance Authority and the Maine Finance Authority found no significant impact of short-term rentals on housing inventory or rental prices. He noted that many short-term rentals are in ski condos and second homes, a long-standing trend in New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine.
Unclear: Representative Elberger Information Only02:52:53.760 - 10:51:59 AM; Representative Elberger asked about the potential for converting empty commercial properties in Nashua into residential properties, given the rise in online commercial activity. Chris Norwood responded that retail has become more experience-based and suggested that municipalities should consider mixed-use developments with retail on the ground floor to address this issue.
Unclear: Representative Shamberg Information Only02:54:44.920 - 10:53:50 AM; Representative Shamberg inquired about the impact of an additional real estate transfer tax (RETT) increase on sales to save historical sites. The response focused on the need for increased housing inventory to facilitate such transfers and emphasized the importance of addressing regulatory barriers to increase housing opportunities.
Unclear: Representative (unspecified name) from an unspecified community Information Only02:56:31.000 - 10:55:37 AM; A representative from an unspecified community discussed the severe housing crisis in their town despite having minimal zoning restrictions. They mentioned concerns about revaluation's impact on property taxes and the potential enforcement of laws related to mobile homes, which could exacerbate homelessness. They asked for recommendations beyond easing regulations, such as addressing construction costs and interest rates. Chris Norwood mentioned support for the Invest NH fund and the challenges of smaller-scale affordable housing projects.
Unclear: Sarah (unspecified last name) Information Only03:00:59.399 - 11:00:05 AM; Sarah discussed the potential for regional approaches to solving housing issues in smaller communities, mentioning community action programs and both for-profit and nonprofit developers as tools to address the challenge of achieving economies of scale in smaller projects.
Unclear: Phil Lton, Research Director at the New Hampshire Fiscal Policy Institute Information Only04:04:08.520 - 12:03:14 PM; Phil Lton from the New Hampshire Fiscal Policy Institute began speaking but the transcript ends before his testimony is fully captured.
Unclear: Phil Lton, Research Director at the New Hampshire Fiscal Policy Institute Information Only04:04:08.520 - 12:03:14 PM; Phil Lton continued his presentation from the New Hampshire Fiscal Policy Institute, discussing the state's economic situation. He highlighted the national economy's strength and the 'soft landing' achieved post-COVID, with sustained job growth and lower inflation. He then focused on New Hampshire's median household income, noting its recovery from the Great Recession and the impact of inflation on it. Lton also discussed income distribution in the state, pointing out that a significant portion of households have incomes below $50,000, with some in poverty. He compared New Hampshire's personal income growth to neighboring states and discussed wage growth across different income groups and regions within the state. Additionally, he covered state revenues, noting a decline in certain tax revenues and the impact of policy changes like the repeal of the interest and dividends tax.
Unclear: Jess Williams, Policy Analyst at the New Hampshire Fiscal Policy Institute Information Only04:04:45.359 - 12:03:51 PM; Jess Williams discussed demographic trends and household costs in New Hampshire. She highlighted the state's slow population growth compared to previous decades, driven by immigration rather than natural increase. She noted an aging population with more individuals reaching retirement age, and discussed the financial constraints faced by families, particularly in housing and child care costs. Williams provided statistics on the cost of living, including variations across counties, and the impact of housing and child care on household budgets. She also touched on poverty rates and the affordability of basic household expenses.
Unclear: Representative Daniels Information Only04:52:17.040 - 12:51:23 PM; Representative Daniels asked about the nature of personal income data discussed in the presentation, specifically whether it included earned and unearned income. The response clarified that the data included all income going to households, which encompasses both earned and unearned income.
Unclear: Representative Muns Information Only04:54:37.638 - 12:53:43 PM; Representative Muns inquired about the reasons behind the near-identical numbers for business profits and enterprise tax differences in the state revenue plan versus the previous year. The response highlighted factors such as changes in corporate profits, the cap on credit carry forward, and shifts to market-based sourcing and single sales factor, which may contribute to revenue volatility and unpredictability.
Unclear: Representative Brun Information Only05:00:45.798 - 12:59:51 PM; Representative Brun asked about the labor force participation of individuals aged 65 and older, specifically how long they stay in the workforce. The response indicated that labor force participation rates for this age group are significant, with variations as age increases, but specific data on duration of participation was not available. The discussion also touched on the potential for structuring work to accommodate older workers.
Unclear: Representative Shamberg Information Only05:04:44.280 - 1:03:50 PM; Representative Shamberg inquired about studies conducted on the impact of changing to single sales factor and market-based sourcing. The response noted that the Department of Revenue Administration likely conducted such analyses, but detailed information was not readily available to the presenter. The importance of these policy changes on state revenues was acknowledged.
Unclear: Andrew Kleene, President of the Josiah Bartlett Center for Public Policy Information Only05:07:25.360 - 1:06:31 PM; Andrew Kleene presented insights from the Josiah Bartlett Center on economic policy considerations for New Hampshire. He discussed potential federal policy impacts such as tariffs, immigration, tax policy, and energy policy, emphasizing their potential effects on the state's economy. Kleene also reviewed state business tax revenues, highlighting their significant growth since 2015 and their increased share of the state's budget. He stressed the importance of considering both revenue and spending, noting that state spending tends to match revenue increases, leading to a constant upward adjustment in spending.
Unclear: Andrew Kleene, President of the Josiah Bartlett Center for Public Policy Information Only05:07:25.360 - 1:06:31 PM; Andrew Kleene continues his presentation on the economic situation in New Hampshire, focusing on the relationship between state revenue and education funding. He explains that business taxes have increased as a percentage of the General and Education Trust Fund Revenue from 25% to 39% since 2015. He also discusses the pattern of state spending, noting that spending typically adjusts upwards to match revenue increases. Kleene mentions that New Hampshire's constitution requires a balanced budget, but notes the difficulty in legislating future spending limits without a constitutional amendment.
Unclear: Representative ORS Information Only05:20:27.638 - 1:19:33 PM; Representative ORS asks for clarification on the business taxes and their contribution to the General and Education Trust Fund Revenue. He confirms that businesses now shoulder a much larger share of the revenue than they used to, indicating an increase in revenue despite tax cuts.
Unclear: Andrew Kleene, President of the Josiah Bartlett Center for Public Policy Information Only05:21:24.958 - 1:20:30 PM; Kleene further explains the relationship between state revenue and spending, emphasizing that spending adjusts upwards to match revenue increases. He suggests that the only way to break this cycle is to spend less. He also discusses the constitutional limitation on binding future legislatures to spending limits without a constitutional amendment.
Unclear: Representative Elberger Information Only05:22:31.760 - 1:21:37 PM; Representative Elberger questions whether the state's spending behavior is similar to individual behavior where spending increases with income. Kleene agrees that this is a common pattern.
Unclear: Representative Aly Information Only05:23:33.200 - 1:22:39 PM; Representative Aly asks how to determine whether spending or revenue increases first. Kleene explains that in New Hampshire, the legislative process starts with revenue projections, which then inform spending decisions.
Unclear: Andrew Kleene, President of the Josiah Bartlett Center for Public Policy Information Only05:24:21.520 - 1:23:27 PM; Kleene clarifies that the revenue and spending numbers discussed do not include federal grants or ARPA money, focusing solely on state revenues. He then transitions to discuss policies that might improve the economy and revenues in New Hampshire, starting with housing.
Unclear: Andrew Kleene, President of the Josiah Bartlett Center for Public Policy Information Only05:25:15.000 - 1:24:21 PM; Kleene presents data on housing permits from 1994 to 2023, highlighting the decline in residential construction. He notes that New Hampshire's construction rates are significantly lower than they were 50 years ago, despite population growth. He attributes this to restrictive local housing regulations, which he argues make New Hampshire one of the most restrictive places for home building globally. Kleene suggests that easing these regulations could stimulate the economy.
Unclear: Representative Elmy Information Only05:30:31.320 - 1:29:37 PM; Representative Elmy questions the accuracy of the housing permit data, noting that many permits are not used. Kleene agrees that this underscores the severity of the housing issue, as even fewer homes are built than permitted. Elmy also mentions the environmental reasons for some regulations, particularly in Lebanon, which Kleene acknowledges but suggests that some regulations are overly restrictive and increase costs.
Unclear: Representative Stringham Information Only05:32:13.680 - 1:31:19 PM; Representative Stringham discusses the impact of local property taxes on housing, noting that property taxes constitute a significant portion of taxes in New Hampshire. Kleene responds that while property taxes are high and stable, business taxes are more harmful to economic growth. He mentions that New Hampshire's choice to fund government primarily through property taxes has been beneficial for economic growth.
Unclear: Representative Wer Information Only05:34:44.520 - 1:33:50 PM; Representative Wer shares personal experiences from the 1970s when there was a surge in housing development due to new highways making commuting to Massachusetts easier. He notes that the subsequent restrictions on development were a response to perceived abuses during that period. Kleene agrees that the study on housing restrictions found similar reasons for the regulations.
Unclear: Representative Rung Information Only05:36:17.718 - 1:35:23 PM; Representative Rung asks about the impact of private well water and septic systems on lot size restrictions and whether state funding for municipal water and wastewater systems could increase housing development. Kleene suggests that such funding might help on the margins but doubts it would significantly change restrictive policies aimed at controlling population growth. He mentions a potential solution involving soil-based zoning to accommodate newer septic technologies.
Unclear: Representative Malloy Information Only05:38:22.718 - 1:37:28 PM; Representative Malloy requests a repeat of the housing permit numbers from 1973 to 2023. Kleene provides the numbers, showing a significant decrease in permits despite population growth.
Unclear: Representative Opal Information Only05:39:21.478 - 1:38:27 PM; Representative Opal discussed the impact of business taxes on New Hampshire's economy. He questioned the presenter, Mr. Klein, about the claim that business taxes have increased and are more harmful to economic growth than property taxes. He noted the strong performance of New Hampshire's economy, which has the lowest unemployment rate in the region, and sought clarification on how business taxation fits into this picture. Mr. Klein explained that business taxation is just one factor among many that affect economic growth, emphasizing that New Hampshire's high business taxes compared to other states are offset by other economic factors.
Unclear: Representative Aly Information Only05:43:25.440 - 1:42:31 PM; Representative Aly discussed the issue of government spending and its efficiency. He argued that New Hampshire's reliance on property taxes and the decentralization of services among small towns lead to inefficiencies. He questioned whether the state has passed the point of diminishing returns on government spending, suggesting that the current system of local management of services is not cost-effective and that New Hampshire may be on the downward slope of the economic growth curve due to these inefficiencies.
Unclear: Representative Shamburg Information Only05:52:04.280 - 1:51:10 PM; Representative Shamburg asked about the Josiah Bartlett Center's stance on the absence of a functioning market in K-12 education. The presenter, Mr. Klein, explained that the current system lacks consumer-driven choice, unlike higher education, and proposed solutions like Education Freedom Accounts (EFAs) and open enrollment to introduce market dynamics. He cited studies showing positive effects of school choice on public school performance. Shamburg also inquired about state spending exceeding projected revenue, but the discussion was cut off before a full response was given.
Unclear: Representative Elberger Information Only05:56:57.558 - 1:56:03 PM; Representative Elberger raised concerns about the high increase in New Hampshire's homeless population despite the state's low poverty rate and high economic freedom. Mr. Klein responded by noting that the Bartlett Center had not studied the demographics of the homeless population in detail but mentioned a national study attributing increased homelessness to illegal immigration. He also discussed the need for more open housing policies and the role of local regulations in banning affordable housing options like boarding houses. On the topic of education, Elberger challenged the accountability of Education Freedom Accounts, which Mr. Klein refuted by explaining the rigorous vetting process in place.
Unclear: Representative Ors Information Only06:03:06.638 - 2:02:12 PM; Representative Ors mentioned a documentary suggesting that drug addiction is a primary cause of homelessness and inquired about the business tax rates in Massachusetts compared to New Hampshire. Mr. Klein explained that Massachusetts has a lower business tax rate but compensates with broader-based taxes like personal income and sales taxes, which New Hampshire does not have.
Unclear: Representative Rung Information Only06:04:20.200 - 2:03:26 PM; Representative Rung asked whether electing school board members provides parents with sufficient control over the quality of schools. Mr. Klein responded that the current system, where a majority plus one on the school board can dictate policy, does not offer enough choice for parents who may disagree with the educational approach. He advocated for a system where parents can choose different schools, including those in other districts, to better match their children's educational needs.

Janigian, John(Chairman)(R)[B+]2024	Ohm, Bill(Clerk)(R)[B]2018	Ulery, Jordan(V Chairman)(R)[A-]2024
Almy, Susan(D)[CT]2024	Oppel, Thomas(D)	Smith, Steven(R)[B+]2024
Malloy, Dennis(D)[CT]2024	Schamberg, Thomas(D)[CT]2024	Doucette, Fred(R)[A-]2024
Southworth, Thomas(D)[CT]2024	Tierney, James(R)[B-]2024	Aures, Cyril(R)[A]2024
Bolton, Bill(D)[CT]2024	Elberger, Susan(D)[D-]2024	Smith, Geoffrey(D)[D-]2024
Soti, Julius(R)[A+]2024	Spahr, Terry(D)	Bryer, Scott(R)
Murphy, Mary(R)	Ford, Mary(R)