Committee Summary for House Ways and Means (05/06/2025)

Bill/Time	Type	Title	Sponsor
SB291 2025-1925H 00:06:16.880 - 9:04:38 AM	General Working Session	relative to the religious use of land property tax exemption.	Abbas, Daryl(R)[C+]2024
SB291 2025-1925H 00:40:00.240 - 9:38:22 AM	Executive Session	relative to the religious use of land property tax exemption.	Abbas, Daryl(R)[C+]2024

SB291 2025-1925H: Chair Information Only00:06:16.880 - 9:04:38 AM; The Chair announced that the committee would only discuss SB 291 during the session, postponing SB 249 and SB 83 for at least two weeks. They also mentioned a new bill regarding fee increases that would require a public hearing. The Chair reminded members to clear out their items from the drawers and lockers by the 22nd and announced a field trip to Nashua the following day at 11 a.m.
SB291 2025-1925H: Representative Oaken Information Only00:08:14.479 - 9:06:36 AM; Representative Oaken inquired about the schedule for the next meeting, confirming that there would be no meeting the following week and no House session. They noted that there would be time to address the remaining bills, including the new bill on fee increases and SB 291.
SB291 2025-1925H: Representative Shamberg Support00:14:47.519 - 9:13:09 AM; Representative Shamberg expressed support for the amendment to SB 291, noting that it aligns with the original intent of House Bill 585. They appreciated the simplification and focus on the issue of pastors living in their own homes and the use of parsonage rental income for housing allowances.
SB291 2025-1925H: Representative Opel Support00:15:51.279 - 9:14:13 AM; Representative Opel supported the amendment but raised a concern about potential discrimination against non-Christian denominations due to the use of the term 'church parsonages.' They suggested considering broader language to include all houses of worship.
SB291 2025-1925H: Representative Uler Information Only00:17:04.000 - 9:15:26 AM; Representative Uler addressed Representative Opel's concern, stating that the term 'church' in law has been adapted to mean places of worship and does not discriminate against non-Christian denominations. They suggested that additional verbiage might not be necessary.
SB291 2025-1925H: Chair Information Only00:18:25.440 - 9:16:47 AM; The Chair responded to Representative Opel's concern, explaining that the amendment was placed within the context of existing law about church parsonages and did not believe it discriminated. They noted that if further legislation was needed, it could be addressed in the future.
SB291 2025-1925H: Representative Elberger Oppose00:22:53.200 - 9:21:15 AM; Representative Elberger expressed opposition to passing the bill as amended, preferring to retain it for further discussion. They believed there were still unanswered questions and did not see the bill as urgent.
SB291 2025-1925H: Representative Tierney Support00:22:53.200 - 9:21:15 AM; Representative Tierney supported the amendment but had a question about the entity responsible for the actions described in lines seven through nine of the amendment.
SB291 2025-1925H: Unidentified Speaker Information Only00:23:39.280 - 9:22:01 AM; The speaker discusses the issue of what constitutes a legally recognized religion, using the example of the 'Moonies' in Connecticut. They question who determines the legitimacy of a religious organization, mentioning that the IRS played a role in a case in Grafton, NH, where an individual declared his home a church. The speaker corrects the term 'Moonies' to 'Loonies' but then clarifies back to 'Moonies', indicating a confusion or correction in terminology.
SB291 2025-1925H: Representative Ors Information Only00:26:00.480 - 9:24:22 AM; Representative Ors inquires about the tax exemptions of a housing trust mentioned by Representative Amy, expressing curiosity about whether they were being properly managed. The discussion shifts to a broader issue of state versus religion, referencing a situation in Ware, NH, where a homeowner named Howard Kujian was restricted from holding religious activities in his home, leading to a lawsuit against the town.
SB291 2025-1925H: Unidentified Speaker Support00:26:45.600 - 9:25:07 AM; The speaker supports the amendment, emphasizing that it clearly defines what constitutes a religious purpose and supports churches helping the poor and needy. They mention a small church in Chester, NH, that feeds school children and argue that churches should not be pushed out of providing such services. They also reference the historical and global role of religious organizations in charity, like Mother Teresa's work in India.
SB291 2025-1925H: Unidentified Speaker Information Only00:29:06.159 - 9:27:28 AM; The speaker confirms that the amendment's text is current law with the addition of boldface type. They discuss the role of churches in providing services and mention a situation with an Indian lady in New Jersey, illustrating class-based discrimination.
SB291 2025-1925H: Unidentified Speaker Information Only00:30:16.559 - 9:28:38 AM; The speaker discusses the municipal handling of tax exemptions for parsonages in New Hampshire, mentioning that different towns handle it differently. They note that the Catholic Church has a parsonage that receives tax exemptions, while other churches might not.
SB291 2025-1925H: Unidentified Speaker Support00:31:04.480 - 9:29:26 AM; The speaker supports the amendment, mentioning historical tax sponsorship of congregational churches in New Hampshire and the lack of equivalent support for other religious communities like the Jewish and Buddhist communities. They express willingness to support the amendment as it stands.
SB291 2025-1925H: Representative Elberger Information Only00:31:53.039 - 9:30:15 AM; Representative Elberger inquires about the safeguards in the amendment to ensure that the rent charged by churches does not exceed the cost of the housing allowance plus additional expenses like insurance and maintenance. They discuss hypothetical scenarios to understand the potential for abuse.
SB291 2025-1925H: Unidentified Speaker Information Only00:32:40.320 - 9:31:02 AM; The speaker responds to Representative Elberger's query by discussing how discrepancies might be discovered, such as through IRS investigations or local town assessors. They use a hypothetical example to illustrate how the rent charged could be seen as excessive if it far exceeds the housing allowance provided.
SB291 2025-1925H: Unidentified Speaker Information Only00:34:47.199 - 9:33:09 AM; The speaker discusses the practicality of generating significant income from a single unit of housing, suggesting that the proposed figures for housing allowance and other costs seem exaggerated. They share personal experience in the rental business to support their argument, indicating that actual costs and potential income are typically lower than the numbers being discussed.
SB291 2025-1925H: Representative Opel Information Only00:35:55.920 - 9:34:17 AM; Representative Opel clarifies concerns by referencing an IRS document, which alleviates their concerns about the definition of a church in relation to the housing allowance. They agree with the wording used in the amendment concerning the application of net income to the pastor's housing allowance.
SB291 2025-1925H: Representative Ali Information Only00:36:47.119 - 9:35:09 AM; Representative Ali expresses a leaning towards supporting the amendment after a brief discussion on the wording related to the use of net income for housing allowances. They suggest taking a straw poll to gauge support for the amendment.
SB291 2025-1925H: Representative Olery Support00:40:00.240 - 9:38:22 AM; Representative Olery moves to pass the bill with the amendment, clarifying that the amendment completely replaces SB 291 except for the implementation date. They emphasize the amendment's focus on modifying the application of net income to housing allowances.
SB291 2025-1925H: Representative Elme Support00:40:00.240 - 9:38:22 AM; Representative Elme seconds the motion to pass the bill as amended, indicating support for the changes proposed in the amendment.
SB291 2025-1925H: Representative Janeian Support00:40:00.240 - 9:38:22 AM; Representative Janeian offers amendment 2025-1925H, which modifies the application of net income to housing allowances, and confirms that the amendment replaces sections one and two of the original bill but not the implementation date.
SB291 2025-1925H: Representative Shamburgg Support00:40:00.240 - 9:38:22 AM; Representative Shamburgg seconds the amendment, indicating their support for the changes proposed.
SB291 2025-1925H: Representative Tierney Information Only00:41:16.000 - 9:39:38 AM; Representative Tierney seeks clarification on the scope of the amendment, confirming it replaces sections one and two but not the implementation date of the original bill.
SB291 2025-1925H: Clerk Information Only00:42:29.760 - 9:40:51 AM; The clerk calls the roll for the vote on the amendment, resulting in a 15 to 1 vote in favor of the amendment.
SB291 2025-1925H: Representative Elberger Oppose00:42:29.760 - 9:40:51 AM; Representative Elberger votes against the amendment and the bill as amended, indicating opposition to the changes proposed.
SB291 2025-1925H: Chairman Jeneian Support00:43:14.800 - 9:41:36 AM; Chairman Jeneian oversees the voting process, announces the results, and confirms the amendment and the bill as amended pass with a 15 to 1 vote. They also mention that the bill will go on the consent calendar and assigns Representative Uler to write the majority report.

Janigian, John(Chairman)(R)[B+]2024	Ohm, Bill(Clerk)(R)[B]2018	Ulery, Jordan(V Chairman)(R)[A-]2024
Almy, Susan(D)[CT]2024	Oppel, Thomas(D)	Smith, Steven(R)[B+]2024
Malloy, Dennis(D)[CT]2024	Schamberg, Thomas(D)[CT]2024	Southworth, Thomas(D)[CT]2024
Tierney, James(R)[B-]2024	Cole, Brian(R)[B-]2024	Aures, Cyril(R)[A]2024
Bolton, Bill(D)[CT]2024	Elberger, Susan(D)[D-]2024	Smith, Geoffrey(D)[D-]2024
Soti, Julius(R)[A+]2024	Spahr, Terry(D)	Bryer, Scott(R)
Murphy, Mary(R)	Ford, Mary(R)