Committee Summary for House Ways and Means (05/20/2025)

Bill/Time	Type	Title	Sponsor
SB110 00:07:07.759 - 9:05:58 AM	Public Hearing	relative to terrain permitting.	Lang, Timothy(R)[C+]2024
HB737 01:02:29.440 - 10:01:20 AM	General Working Session	(New Title) creating local options for games of chance, authorizing keno throughout the state, and changing charitable gaming license fees and reporting requirements.	Boyd, Bill(R)[B]2024
HB737 01:27:49.920 - 10:26:40 AM	Committee of Conference	(New Title) creating local options for games of chance, authorizing keno throughout the state, and changing charitable gaming license fees and reporting requirements.	Boyd, Bill(R)[B]2024
SB110 03:08:34.640 - 12:07:25 PM	Executive Session	relative to terrain permitting.	Lang, Timothy(R)[C+]2024
Unclear 03:13:23.439 - 12:12:14 PM	General Working Session	Unclear

SB110: Trisha Milo, representing Senator Lang Information Only00:07:07.759 - 9:05:58 AM; Trisha Milo introduced Senate Bill 110 on behalf of Senator Lang. She explained that the bill was amended by the Senate and worked on with the Department of Environmental Services (DES). The amended bill establishes fees for applications for terrain alteration and requires DES to adopt rules to establish a permit by notification for certain projects. The fees and the application process have been modified from the original bill, and DES representative Mr. Trobridge is available to answer questions.
SB110: Matt Mayberry, CEO of the New Hampshire Homebuilders Association Support00:09:11.600 - 9:08:02 AM; Matt Mayberry expressed strong support for SB 110, highlighting a public-private partnership with DES and Senator Lang. The bill aims to streamline the terrain alteration application process into a single step at DES, reducing the previous three-step process involving the Department of Natural and Cultural Resources and Fish and Game. This would expedite the review process for developers, who would pay the optional fee, without impacting local control or usurping planning or zoning boards. Mayberry confirmed the proposed fees are fair and reasonable, and they are willing to adjust them if necessary as the process is implemented.
SB110: Philip Trobridge, Manager of Land Resources Management, New Hampshire DEES Information Only00:17:12.640 - 9:16:03 AM; Philip Trobridge, from the New Hampshire Department of Environmental Services (DEES), explained the scope of their land resources management program, which includes permitting for land development such as alteration of terrain, wetlands, shoreland, and subsurface systems. He clarified that the proposed changes in SB110 do not limit the reviews needed for shoreland, despite potentially confusing wording. He detailed how the bill would affect the review thresholds for projects near protected shorelands, and how fees are structured to cover the costs of reviews and sustain the program. Trobridge also discussed the introduction of a permit by notification process for projects between 100,000 and 150,000 square feet, aimed at simplifying the process for developers while maintaining necessary reviews for larger projects. He addressed concerns about the fairness of the fee structure and the potential for expedited reviews, emphasizing that the process is designed to be fair and not discriminate against smaller developers. Trobridge also touched on enforcement authority enhancements in another bill (SB299) and the complexity of the fee structures, suggesting a tabular format in future legislation could clarify these for the public.
HB737: Dr. Debbie Warner, Littleton Support01:02:29.440 - 10:01:20 AM; Dr. Debbie Warner from Littleton spoke in support of HB737, detailing the community's opposition to a casino in their town and the subsequent efforts to influence legislation. She explained the evolution of the bill from an opt-in to an opt-out system for casinos due to Senate amendments, expressing frustration but acknowledging the bill's functionality despite its cumbersome nature. Warner emphasized the importance of giving communities a voice in decisions about casinos and Kino, and urged the committee to concur with the Senate version to establish this voice.
HB737: Birdie Dees, New Hampshire Municipal Association Oppose01:13:06.640 - 10:11:57 AM; Birdie Dees from the New Hampshire Municipal Association expressed concerns about the Senate's addition of Kino language to HB737, preferring the original opt-in system for both casinos and Kino. Dees highlighted the potential confusion an opt-out system could cause for municipalities that have already voted on Kino, and the additional work required to re-educate voters. He suggested a non-concur and no committee of conference, advocating for the House's original language which had been supported twice.
HB737: Unknown Speaker Information Only01:27:49.920 - 10:26:40 AM; The speaker expressed concerns about the reliance on gambling to fund state services, noting that it disproportionately affects those who are not wealthy. They observed that during a recent tour, attendees were not affluent and were likely to lose money, advocating for alternative funding methods.
HB737: Representative Opel Information Only01:29:10.320 - 10:28:01 AM; Representative Opel discussed the complexities and potential confusion caused by referendum voting, particularly when voters must vote 'yes' to oppose something and 'no' to support it. They emphasized the importance of clear language and supported the 'opt-in' approach for municipalities, arguing it gives voters a straightforward choice. They expressed a preference for maintaining the original House position on the bill, criticizing the Senate's approach to impose a statewide opt-out as confusing and detrimental.
HB737: Unknown Representative Support01:30:40.800 - 10:29:31 AM; The representative voiced support for more local control, favoring the opt-in mechanism and the House version of the bill. They expressed a desire for non-concurrence or non-concurrence with a committee of conference, indicating a preference for sticking with the House position.
HB737: Representative M Information Only01:31:29.920 - 10:30:20 AM; Representative M acknowledged the flaws in the original HHR law and criticized the imposition of casinos on municipalities without an opt-in provision. They discussed the Senate's procedure for referendums as outlined in RSA 393, finding it decent but not ideal. They highlighted the shift from local opt-in to mandatory opt-out as a significant issue, suggesting non-concurrence with the Senate and requesting a committee of conference to maintain the House position.
HB737: Representative Elme Support01:32:59.360 - 10:31:50 AM; Representative Elme agreed with Representative M's views on the referendum process, emphasizing that certain sections of the law were better defined. They expressed frustration over past failures to secure opt-in provisions and mentioned a former representative's change of stance on the issue.
HB737: Unknown Representative Information Only01:34:14.800 - 10:33:05 AM; The representative discussed the three options available regarding the Senate's position: concur, non-concur, and non-concur with a request for a committee of conference. They explained the implications of each option and conducted a straw poll, indicating that non-concurrence with a committee of conference was the favored approach, as it allowed for negotiation while maintaining the House's position.
HB737: Unknown Representative Information Only01:35:26.719 - 10:34:17 AM; The representative expressed concerns about the composition of the committee of conference, noting that the Speaker appoints members and there was uncertainty about whether the appointees would support the House's stance. They feared that the committee could agree with the Senate, potentially leading to the bill's failure.
HB737: Unknown Representative Information Only01:36:15.480 - 10:35:06 AM; The representative clarified the outcomes of concurring with the Senate bill, non-concurring, and requesting a committee of conference. They explained that concurring would pass the Senate bill into law, non-concurring would kill the bill, and a committee of conference would allow for negotiation but still required House approval. They supported the committee of conference option as it kept the possibility of maintaining local options alive.
HB737: Unknown Representative Information Only01:38:28.239 - 10:37:19 AM; The representative conducted a final straw poll, confirming that non-concurrence with a committee of conference was the favored approach among the members. They announced the closure of the work session on HB737 and mentioned that the next item on the agenda was a revenue update.
SB110: Representative Tierney Support03:08:34.640 - 12:07:25 PM; Representative Tierney moved for an ought to pass recommendation on SB110, explaining that the bill simplifies and speeds up the process for obtaining permits for large developments. They noted that increased fees, agreed upon by the homebuilders association, would cover new expenses.
SB110: Representative Elme Support03:09:56.560 - 12:08:47 PM; Representative Elme supported the bill and mentioned that the homebuilders association agreed to the fee increases. They highlighted that the bill is a piece of a larger law, and understanding it requires reading surrounding sections.
SB110: Representative Opel Oppose03:11:10.640 - 12:10:01 PM; Representative Opel expressed opposition to SB110 due to concerns about the bill's clarity and potential for future litigation. They felt the writing was unclear and would not support it.
SB110: Unknown Representative Information Only03:12:14.720 - 12:11:05 PM; The representative summarized the vote on SB110, which passed 15 to 1 with Representative Opel voting against it. They confirmed that the bill would go on the consent calendar without a minority report.
Unclear: Chris Shay, LBA Information Only03:13:23.439 - 12:12:14 PM; Chris Shay from the Legislative Budget Assistant's office presented revenue updates, focusing on the differences between House and Senate estimates. They highlighted adjustments in lottery revenue and discussed the implications of recent changes in the budget.
Unclear: Lindsay Stub, Commissioner, Department of Revenue Information Only03:14:31.359 - 12:13:22 PM; Commissioner Lindsay Stub provided detailed insights into the revenue estimates, explaining the adjustments made to the lottery revenue estimates and the differences between House and Senate projections. They discussed the impact of new facilities on lottery revenue and the adjustments made for fiscal years 2025 to 2027.
Unclear: Unknown Representative Information Only03:15:48.080 - 12:14:39 PM; The representative sought clarification on the lottery revenue estimates, asking about the differences between what was passed by the House and what was estimated by the Ways and Means Committee. They discussed the adjustments made by the Lottery Commission after the opening of new facilities.
Unclear: Representative Elme Information Only03:17:05.600 - 12:15:56 PM; Representative Elme clarified that the Lottery Commission revised its revenue estimates after the opening of new facilities, leading to the adjustments in the House's budget.
Unclear: Representative Yuly Information Only03:18:18.279 - 12:17:09 PM; Representative Yuly questioned the process of adding lottery revenue to the budget, confirming that the Finance Committee used the revised numbers provided by the Lottery Commission.
Unclear: Unknown Representative Information Only03:19:24.239 - 12:18:15 PM; The representative discussed the impact of business taxes and the interest and dividends tax on the revenue estimates, noting significant differences between House and Senate projections for fiscal year 2025.
Unclear: Unknown Representative Information Only03:22:07.279 - 12:20:58 PM; The representative asked about the Senate's estimate for meals and rooms tax, expressing concern over potential decreases in Canadian tourism. They discussed the potential offset by increased domestic travel.
Unclear: Unknown Representative Information Only03:25:21.439 - 12:24:12 PM; The representative sought further clarification on the potential impact of changes in Canadian tourism and domestic travel on meals and rooms tax revenue. They discussed the potential effects of federal tax changes on discretionary spending.
Unclear: Representative Murphy Information Only03:28:49.520 - 12:27:40 PM; Representative Murphy asked about the potential positive impact of federal tax changes on meals and rooms tax revenue, suggesting that increased discretionary income could offset the loss from reduced Canadian tourism.
Unclear: Representative Shamber Information Only03:31:04.040 - 12:29:55 PM; Representative Shamber inquired about the methodology used for revenue estimates and the potential impact of business growth and staffing issues on future meals and rooms tax revenue. They discussed the effects of inflation and short-term rentals on the tax.
Unclear: Unnamed Speaker Information Only03:35:59.800 - 12:34:50 PM; The speaker discusses the differences in revenue estimates between the House and the Senate, particularly focusing on the fiscal year 2025 projections. They mention that the Senate had more recent data (February, March, and April) compared to the House, which only had data up to January. This led to the Senate having a higher base for their projections. The speaker also notes that the committee's estimates were at the lower end of the ranges, which contributed to the differences.
Unclear: Representative Elme Information Only03:38:15.640 - 12:37:06 PM; Representative Elme questions the differences in business tax estimates between the House and the Senate, particularly highlighting that the Senate's estimates were higher despite the House receiving lower projections. The speaker points out that the most significant differences are in business taxes, with the Senate's estimates being $40 million higher in 2026 and $83 million higher in 2027. They also discuss how the House's estimates were closer to the median of the ranges provided.
Unclear: Unnamed Speaker Information Only03:39:49.200 - 12:38:40 PM; The speaker addresses Representative Elme's question by discussing the trend in business tax revenue, suggesting that there has been a 'right sizing' of business tax payments to New Hampshire. They argue that the downward trend observed in recent years is unlikely to continue, and instead, they expect a return to normal growth patterns. The speaker also mentions that the estimates for future years consider a growth range between 2% and 8%, reflecting the current economic uncertainties.
Unclear: Unnamed Speaker Information Only03:40:44.640 - 12:39:35 PM; The speaker continues the discussion on business tax revenue, emphasizing that the estimates for the out years are based on factors such as inflation and actual economic growth. They mention that while inflation is a concern, there is also hope for underlying economic growth that could increase business profits and, consequently, tax revenue. The speaker acknowledges the uncertainty in predicting these outcomes.
Unclear: Unnamed Speaker Information Only03:45:28.239 - 12:44:19 PM; The speaker responds to a question about inflation rates used in their models, clarifying that there isn't a specific number used in the model but that they rely on general economic reports like the Kipinger letter to stay informed. They discuss the potential impact of international markets and the possibility of a permanent extension of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act on multinational businesses in New Hampshire.
Unclear: Representative Ors Information Only03:47:48.600 - 12:46:39 PM; Representative Ors inquires about the potential impact of recent economic policies, including the Trump tax cuts, drilling for natural gas and oil, and tariff negotiations with China, on New Hampshire's business profit taxes. The speaker suggests that while these policies aim to drive economic growth, the current uncertainty might cause hesitation among businesses, as seen in the fluctuating business tax revenues in March and April.
Unclear: Unnamed Speaker Information Only03:50:02.080 - 12:48:53 PM; The speaker discusses the impact of economic policies and tariffs on business tax revenues, noting a significant drop in estimated payments in April following the announcement of tariffs. They suggest that businesses are holding onto cash due to uncertainty, which might affect future revenue projections. The speaker also mentions the safe harbor provision for underpayment penalties, which influences how businesses make their estimated tax payments.
Unclear: Representative Shamburgg Information Only03:54:00.600 - 12:52:51 PM; Representative Shamburgg expresses concern over the revenue projections, noting that out of 14 factors listed, nine were below plan, indicating a potential unease about future revenue growth. The speaker suggests that while significant growth has been seen in recent years, such growth may not continue at the same level, and the projections reflect a more cautious outlook.
Unclear: Unnamed Speaker Information Only03:55:07.760 - 12:53:58 PM; The speaker discusses specific revenue adjustments made by the Senate, particularly in insurance and interest revenue. They mention that the Senate increased its estimates for future years based on increased collections in March. The speaker also addresses questions about lottery revenue estimates, explaining the differences between the lottery commission's estimates and those made by the Senate Ways and Means Committee, particularly concerning historical horse racing machines.
Unclear: Jim Durus, CFO for the Lottery Commission Information Only04:05:24.000 - 1:04:15 PM; Jim Durus, CFO for the Lottery Commission, clarifies that the lottery's revenue estimates are based on current operations and law, not including future expansions or new facilities. He mentions a proposed new gaming room in Salem that has not yet been licensed but could open by the beginning of 2026, potentially affecting future revenue.
Unclear: Chris, Senate Ways and Means Information Only04:06:12.760 - 1:05:03 PM; Chris from the Senate Ways and Means Committee provided an overview of the revenue estimates, indicating that their estimates for the highway fund and the fish and game fund were unchanged from the House Ways and Means Committee's figures. These estimates can be found in the last pages of the first document distributed. There was a brief discussion about the potential for future revenue changes, particularly related to lottery and gaming.
Unclear: Jim Durus, CFO for the Lottery Commission Information Only04:07:28.560 - 1:06:19 PM; Jim Durus continued discussing the lottery revenue projections, highlighting a 10% decrease in traditional lottery sales for the year. He expressed a conservative approach to future projections, noting the saturation of gaming rooms across the state and the uncertainty about whether traditional lottery sales would rebound.
Unclear: Jim Durus, CFO for the Lottery Commission Information Only04:08:24.560 - 1:07:15 PM; Jim Durus further clarified that the Video Lottery Terminal (VLT) revenue was not included in the current projections as it's not yet law. He explained that any VLT estimates were derived by House Finance members based on information provided by the Lottery Commission, but not directly suggested by them.
Unclear: Unnamed Speaker, likely from DRA Information Only04:09:10.479 - 1:08:01 PM; An unnamed speaker, possibly from the Department of Revenue Administration (DRA), discussed the additional $40 million in business tax revenue expected over the next two years. They clarified that the Senate did not base their estimates on percentage growth but on actual numbers within a range provided by DRA. The estimates suggested a slow growth in fiscal year 2026 and a more significant increase in 2027.
Unclear: Representative Southworth Information Only04:13:54.279 - 1:12:45 PM; Representative Southworth expressed comfort with adjusting lottery revenue estimates upward, suggesting an additional $10 million increase. He was less optimistic about a significant jump in business taxes in 2027 based on current information.
Unclear: Representative Opel Information Only04:15:08.319 - 1:13:59 PM; Representative Opel agreed with the conservative approach on business taxes, citing uncertainty in presidential policies and potential changes in federal interest rates. He felt that predicting beyond current estimates for 2026 and 2027 would be risky.
Unclear: Representative Horses Information Only04:16:16.680 - 1:15:07 PM; Representative Horses expressed a bullish outlook on the economy, attributing it to the effects of tariffs on China and the positive impact of the president's policies. He believed that the business profits tax would increase between now and 2027, and that New Hampshire would see economic growth.
Unclear: Representative Spar Information Only04:18:41.040 - 1:17:32 PM; Representative Spar favored a conservative approach, expressing concern over Moody's downgrade of U.S. debt and the potential for a recession. He agreed with a potential small increase in lottery revenue but was cautious about business profits.
Unclear: Representative Elberger Information Only04:19:47.359 - 1:18:38 PM; Representative Elberger, a native New Yorker, expressed concern over the unpredictability of presidential policies and their impact on the economy. He noted New Hampshire's lower fiscal stability ranking and supported a conservative approach to revenue estimates, agreeing with the suggestion to increase lottery revenue slightly.
Unclear: Representative Elmy Information Only04:21:44.520 - 1:20:35 PM; Representative Elmy shared a past experience from 2007 when a recession hit soon after a budget was set, emphasizing the importance of conservative estimates to avoid financial strain in subsequent years. He expressed concern over the Senate's estimates for 2027, fearing a potential economic crash.
Unclear: Representative Elberger Information Only04:23:42.120 - 1:22:33 PM; Representative Elberger discussed the initial success and subsequent leveling off of the Nashua casino, suggesting that expecting significant increases in lottery revenue might not be realistic. He favored a small increase in lottery revenue but not a large one.
Unclear: Representative M. Information Only04:24:55.279 - 1:23:46 PM; Representative M. supported the Senate's higher lottery revenue estimates, citing the opening of new facilities as a justification. He also expressed optimism about business taxes, noting that recent federal policy uncertainties had diminished, reducing the risk of a recession. He believed that housing market turnover could drive additional revenue.
Unclear: Representative Tuning Information Only04:28:18.520 - 1:27:09 PM; Representative Tuning agreed with increasing lottery revenue by $10 to $15 million but not as high as the Senate's projections. He preferred to keep business tax estimates as they are, expressing caution about the economy's future.
Unclear: Representative Murphy Information Only04:29:23.760 - 1:28:14 PM; Representative Murphy suggested a $5 million increase in lottery revenue due to new facilities, despite their proximity to existing ones. He was optimistic about interest rates and federal tax reforms but favored a conservative approach to business revenue due to policy uncertainties.
Unclear: Representative Mallaloy Information Only04:31:26.960 - 1:30:17 PM; Representative Mallaloy expressed a cautious approach to business profits revenue, suggesting staying with the committee's previous estimates. He noted the significant variance in estimated tax payments between March and April, suggesting a potential impact from federal policy changes.
Unclear: Unnamed Speaker, possibly from DRA Information Only04:32:43.000 - 1:31:34 PM; The unnamed speaker provided additional context on the unusual fluctuations in estimated tax payments, noting that March's increase was the only positive variance in the fiscal year. They highlighted the difficulty in current revenue estimating, citing the unique challenges since the pandemic.
Unclear: Representative Opel Information Only04:37:18.561 - 1:36:09 PM; Representative Opel emphasized the importance of focusing on facts and evidence, citing the uncertainty in economic projections due to recent federal policy changes. He noted the impact of the U.S. debt downgrade on interest rates and borrowing costs, suggesting a cautious approach to revenue estimates and supporting a slight increase in lottery revenue.
Unclear: Representative Information Only04:40:00.000 - 1:38:51 PM; The unnamed representative discussed the potential impact of the Federal Reserve's interest rate decisions on the second quarter, noting that New Hampshire faces specific challenges with housing and energy costs. They suggested that addressing housing and possibly adjusting energy taxation could influence the state's economic trajectory, while advocating for maintaining current business revenue estimates.
Unclear: Representative Information Only04:43:18.520 - 1:42:09 PM; The speaker expressed a belief that the House budget estimates are more bipartisan than those of the Senate. They suggested that the Senate's revenue estimates might be overly optimistic due to the personalities involved, and recommended sticking with the House's estimates.
Unclear: Representative Brier Information Only04:44:08.040 - 1:42:59 PM; Representative Brier indicated a slight disagreement with the Senate's revenue estimates, particularly noting that the Senate's numbers on the lottery might be too high. They suggested a modest increase in lottery revenue but not to the level proposed by the Senate, and mentioned using the agency's estimates provided to the Senate.
Unclear: Representative Cole Information Only04:45:22.320 - 1:44:13 PM; Representative Cole expressed a cautious approach, preferring to stick with the current revenue estimates rather than speculating on potential increases. They highlighted the uncertainty and suggested not to 'count chickens before they hatch'.
Unclear: Representative Information Only04:46:43.120 - 1:45:34 PM; The speaker humorously mentioned being scared by Representative Hopeful's comments but seriously noted the difficulty in predicting revenue, especially now. They supported a slight increase in lottery revenue as a safer option and expressed concerns about their retirement and stock investments.
Unclear: Representative Information Only04:47:56.160 - 1:46:47 PM; The speaker, using humor, expressed a conservative approach to revenue estimates, suggesting not to raise them at all despite being bullish on the economy. They referenced a past nickname 'Syrannosaurus Rex' to emphasize their reluctance to spend and supported maintaining low revenue estimates.
Unclear: Representative Information Only04:49:04.958 - 1:47:55 PM; The speaker sought consensus on potentially adding $10 million annually to the lottery revenue, noting that it's based on factual new figures rather than speculation. They questioned whether a straw vote or motion should be taken on this.
Unclear: Representative Elmy Information Only04:50:06.680 - 1:48:57 PM; Representative Elmy discussed the insurance revenue estimates, suggesting the use of the Senate's figures from the insurance department. They noted a potential increase of $23.7 million in fiscal year 25, which has already been collected, and discussed the implications for future years.
Unclear: Representative Information Only04:52:12.958 - 1:51:03 PM; The speaker raised concerns about adopting the Senate's position on insurance without also considering their position on rooms and meals tax, which they believed would offset any gains from insurance. They expressed reluctance to change numbers without considering all aspects and supported only the lottery increase.
Unclear: Representative Information Only04:53:23.080 - 1:52:14 PM; The speaker proposed a straw poll to gauge support for increasing lottery revenue by $10 million in fiscal years 2026 and 2027, totaling $20 million. They emphasized not taking formal action but assessing committee sentiment.
Unclear: Representative Information Only04:54:37.040 - 1:53:28 PM; The speaker outlined the purpose of the session as informing the House Ways and Means Committee about the Senate's revenue positions in preparation for a potential committee of conference. They advised against taking formal action at this time but to use the discussion to inform future decisions.
Unclear: Representative Information Only04:55:27.718 - 1:54:18 PM; The speaker confirmed the committee's support for maintaining the current business tax estimates rather than adopting the Senate's figures, unless a rational decision to change is made.
Unclear: Representative Information Only04:55:27.718 - 1:54:18 PM; The speaker announced plans to schedule an executive session for the following Tuesday to discuss SB 83 and SB 249, noting that SB 110 was already addressed.

Janigian, John(Chairman)(R)[B+]2024	Ohm, Bill(Clerk)(R)[B]2018	Ulery, Jordan(V Chairman)(R)[A-]2024
Almy, Susan(D)[CT]2024	Oppel, Thomas(D)	Smith, Steven(R)[B+]2024
Malloy, Dennis(D)[CT]2024	Schamberg, Thomas(D)[CT]2024	Southworth, Thomas(D)[CT]2024
Tierney, James(R)[B-]2024	Cole, Brian(R)[B-]2024	Aures, Cyril(R)[A]2024
Bolton, Bill(D)[CT]2024	Elberger, Susan(D)[D-]2024	Smith, Geoffrey(D)[D-]2024
Soti, Julius(R)[A+]2024	Spahr, Terry(D)	Bryer, Scott(R)
Murphy, Mary(R)	Ford, Mary(R)